Post by Lisa Petrison on Nov 15, 2011 12:45:18 GMT -5
A discussion:
Several weeks ago I had the opportunity to go on a multi-day cruise my first ever. It was billed as a "foliage cruise", as we started in Quebec City, and worked our way south, stopping at the port cities of Sydney, Halifax, Saint John, Bar Harbor, and Boston. One day was spent at sea.
As I reported awhile back in this group, my CFIDS symptoms lessened when I was on a several-hour ocean trip in Washington state. So, I was anxious to see if this cruise would have any effect on how I felt. It did.
To my surprise, I felt better being onboard the ship even though the ship was docked in Quebec City! I had assumed the "feel better" effect wouldn't take place until we at least got into the main part of the St. Lawrence seaway. This feeling even took place in the confines of the ship. I didn't quite expect that either. So, from my experience, I have to conclude that I tend to feel better when I'm within several hundred feet of the sea surface.
I imagine several of you are wondering what "feel better" means to me. The major change I experienced was a significant reduction in "brain fog", accompanied by positive emotions. This resulted in me being eager to do a lot of talking with my travel companions. In my head, I could almost hear one part of my brain telling another part of my brain "Gee, you're not normally this talkative!". Another change was a decrease in my sensitivity to cold - cooler weather didn't make me as uncomfortable as it usually does. However, I didn't notice much of an improvement in my physical stamina, even though I worked at it (I used the stairs instead of the elevator as much as I could).
You might think that my increased "feel good" mood might have simply been due to the cruise itself - good friends, great ship, abundant food, etc. I put a lot of thought into whether I was being influenced by these cruise nicities. I decided I wasn't being unfairly unfluenced since I was also aware of parts of the cruise I didn't like due to my personal entertainment preferences ( I don't care for gambling, sitting around a bar, buying expensive jewelry, bidding on paintings, drinking alcohol, etc). In summary, I'm neutral about going on an ocean cruise in the future.
-Don
*
It's an interesting experiment.
I've never been on a cruise although it's my dream. But I went to Kennebunkport at some point and I felt significantly better there.
What about Quebec City itself? Do you feel good there?
I have friends who live at Les Éboulements, along the St.Lawrence river but they're high, not at sea level. And the woman (who has CFS) doesn't feel better there then in Montreal.
Have you tried living at sea levetl along the St.Lawrence?
-Kristin
*
When you mentioned you were on a cruise in the pacific northwest, was this in Puget Sound?
And if so, was it summer or winter?
-Tom
*
There have been several reports here of people being very well on boats - in parts of the world that are almost never reported as "well locations". I hope more of you can go on a boat trip.
-Paul Beith
*
The answer to your question is- negative ions. The ocean gives off a
ton of negative ions. Do a google search on the effect of negative
ions and you will discover that they boost neurotransmitters. Anyone
with cfs should have a negative ion generator at their side as much
as possible. I learned about this from Dr Steve Rochlitz, who you
should also google.
-MedicineMan
*
So this would be consistent with Paul's observation of feeling
especially good near waterfalls, even when the surrounding region is
not quite as good.
But the really GOOD "good locations" remain good, ions or not, which
suggests that the ions are precipitating something OUT of the air in
BAD places.
It would be 'the bad stuff' that is being subtracted out of the
equation by negative ions which would be the culprit responsible for
the differential between good and bad zones.
-Erik Johnson
*
While I did drive up through New Hampshire, Vermont, Quebec, and then Quebec city, I didn't spend any real time in the center of the city - just a drive through. I did not notice feeling any better during that drive than normally. My "Quebec City" was spent within several blocks of the ship dock, where I did feel somewhat better.
I've never lived in Quebec. This was only the second time in my life I've visited there. The last time was 40 years ago, way before I came down with CFIDS.
My last cruise was in Puget Sound, on a ship going from Port Angeles north to Victoria. It was in September. I was struck by the similarity to how I reacted then and on this cruise: a general feeling of "well being", feeling more at peace with myself, not minding the cold wind as much as normal, etc.
I had read about the effect of ions years ago, and just now did a Google search to refresh my knowledge. I have to agree that, based upon all my experience, charged air ions seem to closely correlate with how I feel. In particular, several sources refer to high densities of negative ions near large bodies of evaporating water - the sea. In fact, the sea seems to be the most consistent natural source of negative ions, which make 95% of people feel better.
Ions explain another weird effect on me: For some reason, I very often feel tired and have little energy hours before a rainstorm occurs. But this feeling goes away during the rain and after it. I would have expected nature to want me to be active before a rainstorm, and then to sleep through it! But investigation has shown that positive ions reach a high level hours before a rainstorm, and positive ions make us feel bad. So that explains another "feel bad" symptom.
Many studies seem to show the negative ions directly affect our own bodies as we breath them in. Check out website portalmarket.com/negion.html for a good rundown of how ions affect us.
I have to add that, while I feel that ions in the air sure seem to make us feel better or worse, I don't think they tackle the root cause of CFIDS, which, according to researchers, is probably one or more viruses, which in turn partially corrupt our immune system. And at this point I have no idea how ions and mold spores may interact.
-Don
*
I live near the ocean and love the fresh air (negative ions), always felt well on cruises after the first couple of days (motion sickness that wore off), feel great on boats when the fresh air is blowing in my face but not when the boat is gently rocking (motion sickness). However, I feel especially wonderful right before a storm (positive ions). So, how does this work that I like both negative and positive ions?
-Leslie
*
It may depend upon the meaning of the phrase "right before". In my case, and I think others too, this time period can be about six hours. When the rain is only minutes away, I would expect wind breezes would be blowing the negative ions around so you would feel better then. I guess the crux of the issue is, when a rainstorm approaches, at what point does the quantity of negative ions exceed the positive ions. I don't know the answer to that. Here's where we could use some measurements to settle the issue.
Another quirk I've noticed regarding rainstorms and my CFIDS symptoms: for some reason light rain makes me feel worse. Heavy rain (large rain drops) makes me feel better. I always wondered about that. Now I'm speculating that the heavier weight of the larger raindrops makes them fall faster, causing more surface friction on the raindrops and charging the air with more negative ions. Of course, too much charge, and boom, you get lightning! I think we've all noticed that lightning is far more likely the heavier the rain is falling. And people who have studied lightning have said it's due to the buildup of charge due to the friction of air moving over raindrops. This leads us right back to air blowing right over a large glob of water (the ocean) and charging the air near it.
-Don
*
The way I see it, going to the desert and feeling good in ALL
weather conditions REGARDLESS of ion influence tells me that it's NOT
the ions per se.
If the ions play any part, it must be influencing something in "bad
locations" that is NOT present to be influenced in those "good
places" where one can be exposed to any level of positive or negative
ion shift and feel no change.
I think we should be looking for something that is precipitated by
ions and not so much AT the ions.
-Erik
*
Eons ago, before I got ill, I had a friend who had a negative ion generator. He lived in Ottawa. When I spent a few days at his place I always felt real good and we both thought it was on account of the generator. Ottawa is not a very feel good city in my opinion (experience).
I don't know if there's an affordable way to measure ions in the atmosphere.
You said you live in New Hampshire. Do you live by the sea and do you feel good year round there?
-Christine
*
*
While I live in New Hampshire, I'm about 50 miles from the ocean - way too far away to experience the ocean effect of negative ions. The prevailing winds are westerly here, so there isn't even a chance that the ions could blow in this direction.
About a week ago I awoke feeling really tired, like I wanted to keep resting in bed. When I finally did get up, I wondered if the weather had something to do with it. Sure enough, a huge area of rain was approaching and hit us several hours later. After it hit, I started feeling better.
Regarding as to whether it could be air pressure, I always assumed that the air pressure would be lowest during the rain, not before it. Or, there is the possibility that falling air pressure has something to do with it, e.g., the rate-of-fall. It would take some careful barometric measurements to verify this.
Erik mentioned ions precipitating elements in the air. About 25 years ago, my young daughter was experiencing some allergy problems. We thought it might be due to something in the air. So I bought a small ion generator. It was about the size of a grapefruit, with some small metal bristles protruding from one area. We left it on continuously. But the only thing we noticed was that after several weeks the walls got somewhat dirty. Apparently (we read this might happen) particles of dirt in the air picked up a charge and then migrated to the walls, where they stuck. I don't recall if the machine was supposed to put out positive or negative ions, or whether the manufacturer even believed it made a difference.
-Don
*
I experiemented with one of those too, and it did indeed cause a
mess where particulates would drop right in front of it.
I just got back from Ft Churchill - an old Civil War outpost and
Pony Express station out in the Nevada desert. Felt great - as it
always has, and the weather can do anything it likes - emitting ions
of whatever sort it chooses - and I STILL feel great.
As far as I'm concerned, that rules out ions for being the agent
responsible for the shift in symptoms. If anything, the ions are
precipitating "whatever" it really is.
-Erik
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS_CFIDS_ME/message/5051
Several weeks ago I had the opportunity to go on a multi-day cruise my first ever. It was billed as a "foliage cruise", as we started in Quebec City, and worked our way south, stopping at the port cities of Sydney, Halifax, Saint John, Bar Harbor, and Boston. One day was spent at sea.
As I reported awhile back in this group, my CFIDS symptoms lessened when I was on a several-hour ocean trip in Washington state. So, I was anxious to see if this cruise would have any effect on how I felt. It did.
To my surprise, I felt better being onboard the ship even though the ship was docked in Quebec City! I had assumed the "feel better" effect wouldn't take place until we at least got into the main part of the St. Lawrence seaway. This feeling even took place in the confines of the ship. I didn't quite expect that either. So, from my experience, I have to conclude that I tend to feel better when I'm within several hundred feet of the sea surface.
I imagine several of you are wondering what "feel better" means to me. The major change I experienced was a significant reduction in "brain fog", accompanied by positive emotions. This resulted in me being eager to do a lot of talking with my travel companions. In my head, I could almost hear one part of my brain telling another part of my brain "Gee, you're not normally this talkative!". Another change was a decrease in my sensitivity to cold - cooler weather didn't make me as uncomfortable as it usually does. However, I didn't notice much of an improvement in my physical stamina, even though I worked at it (I used the stairs instead of the elevator as much as I could).
You might think that my increased "feel good" mood might have simply been due to the cruise itself - good friends, great ship, abundant food, etc. I put a lot of thought into whether I was being influenced by these cruise nicities. I decided I wasn't being unfairly unfluenced since I was also aware of parts of the cruise I didn't like due to my personal entertainment preferences ( I don't care for gambling, sitting around a bar, buying expensive jewelry, bidding on paintings, drinking alcohol, etc). In summary, I'm neutral about going on an ocean cruise in the future.
-Don
*
It's an interesting experiment.
I've never been on a cruise although it's my dream. But I went to Kennebunkport at some point and I felt significantly better there.
What about Quebec City itself? Do you feel good there?
I have friends who live at Les Éboulements, along the St.Lawrence river but they're high, not at sea level. And the woman (who has CFS) doesn't feel better there then in Montreal.
Have you tried living at sea levetl along the St.Lawrence?
-Kristin
*
When you mentioned you were on a cruise in the pacific northwest, was this in Puget Sound?
And if so, was it summer or winter?
-Tom
*
There have been several reports here of people being very well on boats - in parts of the world that are almost never reported as "well locations". I hope more of you can go on a boat trip.
-Paul Beith
*
The answer to your question is- negative ions. The ocean gives off a
ton of negative ions. Do a google search on the effect of negative
ions and you will discover that they boost neurotransmitters. Anyone
with cfs should have a negative ion generator at their side as much
as possible. I learned about this from Dr Steve Rochlitz, who you
should also google.
-MedicineMan
*
So this would be consistent with Paul's observation of feeling
especially good near waterfalls, even when the surrounding region is
not quite as good.
But the really GOOD "good locations" remain good, ions or not, which
suggests that the ions are precipitating something OUT of the air in
BAD places.
It would be 'the bad stuff' that is being subtracted out of the
equation by negative ions which would be the culprit responsible for
the differential between good and bad zones.
-Erik Johnson
*
While I did drive up through New Hampshire, Vermont, Quebec, and then Quebec city, I didn't spend any real time in the center of the city - just a drive through. I did not notice feeling any better during that drive than normally. My "Quebec City" was spent within several blocks of the ship dock, where I did feel somewhat better.
I've never lived in Quebec. This was only the second time in my life I've visited there. The last time was 40 years ago, way before I came down with CFIDS.
My last cruise was in Puget Sound, on a ship going from Port Angeles north to Victoria. It was in September. I was struck by the similarity to how I reacted then and on this cruise: a general feeling of "well being", feeling more at peace with myself, not minding the cold wind as much as normal, etc.
I had read about the effect of ions years ago, and just now did a Google search to refresh my knowledge. I have to agree that, based upon all my experience, charged air ions seem to closely correlate with how I feel. In particular, several sources refer to high densities of negative ions near large bodies of evaporating water - the sea. In fact, the sea seems to be the most consistent natural source of negative ions, which make 95% of people feel better.
Ions explain another weird effect on me: For some reason, I very often feel tired and have little energy hours before a rainstorm occurs. But this feeling goes away during the rain and after it. I would have expected nature to want me to be active before a rainstorm, and then to sleep through it! But investigation has shown that positive ions reach a high level hours before a rainstorm, and positive ions make us feel bad. So that explains another "feel bad" symptom.
Many studies seem to show the negative ions directly affect our own bodies as we breath them in. Check out website portalmarket.com/negion.html for a good rundown of how ions affect us.
I have to add that, while I feel that ions in the air sure seem to make us feel better or worse, I don't think they tackle the root cause of CFIDS, which, according to researchers, is probably one or more viruses, which in turn partially corrupt our immune system. And at this point I have no idea how ions and mold spores may interact.
-Don
*
I live near the ocean and love the fresh air (negative ions), always felt well on cruises after the first couple of days (motion sickness that wore off), feel great on boats when the fresh air is blowing in my face but not when the boat is gently rocking (motion sickness). However, I feel especially wonderful right before a storm (positive ions). So, how does this work that I like both negative and positive ions?
-Leslie
*
It may depend upon the meaning of the phrase "right before". In my case, and I think others too, this time period can be about six hours. When the rain is only minutes away, I would expect wind breezes would be blowing the negative ions around so you would feel better then. I guess the crux of the issue is, when a rainstorm approaches, at what point does the quantity of negative ions exceed the positive ions. I don't know the answer to that. Here's where we could use some measurements to settle the issue.
Another quirk I've noticed regarding rainstorms and my CFIDS symptoms: for some reason light rain makes me feel worse. Heavy rain (large rain drops) makes me feel better. I always wondered about that. Now I'm speculating that the heavier weight of the larger raindrops makes them fall faster, causing more surface friction on the raindrops and charging the air with more negative ions. Of course, too much charge, and boom, you get lightning! I think we've all noticed that lightning is far more likely the heavier the rain is falling. And people who have studied lightning have said it's due to the buildup of charge due to the friction of air moving over raindrops. This leads us right back to air blowing right over a large glob of water (the ocean) and charging the air near it.
-Don
*
The way I see it, going to the desert and feeling good in ALL
weather conditions REGARDLESS of ion influence tells me that it's NOT
the ions per se.
If the ions play any part, it must be influencing something in "bad
locations" that is NOT present to be influenced in those "good
places" where one can be exposed to any level of positive or negative
ion shift and feel no change.
I think we should be looking for something that is precipitated by
ions and not so much AT the ions.
-Erik
*
Eons ago, before I got ill, I had a friend who had a negative ion generator. He lived in Ottawa. When I spent a few days at his place I always felt real good and we both thought it was on account of the generator. Ottawa is not a very feel good city in my opinion (experience).
I don't know if there's an affordable way to measure ions in the atmosphere.
You said you live in New Hampshire. Do you live by the sea and do you feel good year round there?
-Christine
*
*
While I live in New Hampshire, I'm about 50 miles from the ocean - way too far away to experience the ocean effect of negative ions. The prevailing winds are westerly here, so there isn't even a chance that the ions could blow in this direction.
About a week ago I awoke feeling really tired, like I wanted to keep resting in bed. When I finally did get up, I wondered if the weather had something to do with it. Sure enough, a huge area of rain was approaching and hit us several hours later. After it hit, I started feeling better.
Regarding as to whether it could be air pressure, I always assumed that the air pressure would be lowest during the rain, not before it. Or, there is the possibility that falling air pressure has something to do with it, e.g., the rate-of-fall. It would take some careful barometric measurements to verify this.
Erik mentioned ions precipitating elements in the air. About 25 years ago, my young daughter was experiencing some allergy problems. We thought it might be due to something in the air. So I bought a small ion generator. It was about the size of a grapefruit, with some small metal bristles protruding from one area. We left it on continuously. But the only thing we noticed was that after several weeks the walls got somewhat dirty. Apparently (we read this might happen) particles of dirt in the air picked up a charge and then migrated to the walls, where they stuck. I don't recall if the machine was supposed to put out positive or negative ions, or whether the manufacturer even believed it made a difference.
-Don
*
I experiemented with one of those too, and it did indeed cause a
mess where particulates would drop right in front of it.
I just got back from Ft Churchill - an old Civil War outpost and
Pony Express station out in the Nevada desert. Felt great - as it
always has, and the weather can do anything it likes - emitting ions
of whatever sort it chooses - and I STILL feel great.
As far as I'm concerned, that rules out ions for being the agent
responsible for the shift in symptoms. If anything, the ions are
precipitating "whatever" it really is.
-Erik
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS_CFIDS_ME/message/5051